Very cool experiment. I can't remember hearing a similar idea anywhere! The melody on the flute is really nice, but it gets buried in the acoustic guitar quite often. I think it was probably not a good idea to reverse the entire song and play it back - I know it's part of the experiment, but it doesn't really make a good listening experience after the halfway mark. Still, the melody on the flute in the first half is very nice. 8
Really love the melody around 1:50, wish that showed up more. I was really going to get into a groove when it showed up, but then it never came back :( At 2:15 I think the lead is too quiet.
Really nice song though. Drum mixing feels really good to me.
Man, some of this sound design is REALLY cool! I freaking love the white noise stuff. But the melodies sound insanely dissonant with each other.
Like the bassline at :20 is awesome and clearly setting up a C minor sort of deal along with the weird instrument playing along side it. And then :30 comes and you play... A minor??? A minor clashes super hard with C minor because A minor has E natural and C minor has E flat, so you'd expect it to sound off, and it does. And then this new instrument comes in at :40 which just sounds like it's in a new key altogether.
The really interesting thing is that at points I really enjoy this atonal freakiness. Like, I guess I've just listened to too much tonal music so the only thing left is atonal, I guess. :P When stuff meshes together around 2:55, it sounds wrong, but the wrongness is actually okay (lol that makes sense) and I like it, it does indeed sound like a giant squid :D. And there's this one diminished (or something) chord at 1:01 that I really like. But atonal is one heck of an acquired taste and hoping that the NGADM judges all have it is probably not going to fly.
The A minor chord at :30 *might* have had the same effect, but by the time :37 comes and you drop another, *different* atonal chord, I just give up and don't like it. :P
Anyway though... I really like the sound design, like I said. The white noise, the weird instrument at :23 is just awesome... But I dunno about the tonality...
Thank you so much for your compliments on the sound design and sweeps. I acknowledge your opinions about the dissonant melodies. I think we both know I love clashing chords, but I still often fail to consider what key all the chords I'm using are in, and I think that costs me sometimes. The thing with :40 is that I wrote it with the tonic on C (even though there are a few accidentals), but for some reason when I uploaded the track into NG's project system, it was transposed up a 1/2 step. So, I transposed it down a 1/2 step in FL Studio, and when I re-uploaded it, it sounded like this. It's still probably my fault that it clashes there (as I kind of wanted it to do so, anyway), but I wasn't really sure of what to make of how the project system transposed that riff AND ONLY THAT RIFF up a half step. DX
I'm glad you liked 2:55, and I was most certainly going for that giant squid-like sound! <3 I'm not sure what you mean by a "diminished chord," but personally I was pretty happy with the chord progression from :52 - 1:14. I understand that too much atonality puts people over the edge, like :37 did for you. The instrument at :23 is one of my weird-ass samples from TS404. >:D
Regarding the NGADM, my understanding of how auditions work is that each judge makes a list ranking their top 64, and if, say, 3 judges each want 48 people to be in the competition, the remaining 16 people are decided by some sort of scoring method. That way, I don't need every single judge to like my piece, as long as 2 or 3 REALLY like it. Still, I have 2 weeks to decide what to audition with. I might even try to make another piece or re-master one of my old ones. I should also probably PM Step to make sure this is actually how NGADM auditions work, haha...
Thanks so much for the review as always, Johnfn! ;D
Hah, awesome!! I'm really pleased that my little guide inspired you, hehe. I should write some more to it sometime - there's a little more than what I wrote down.
> "I'm sure johnfn will eventually say if something is off, which probably is the case XD"
ha ha you know me too well :3 The main thing I would critique would be the drum kit. It doesn't match the electronic sounds imo. This is not a surprise since you rarely if ever do electronic songs, but yeah, a heaver kick, a louder, stronger snare, etc would be great :D Yeah, drum loudness is kinda an issue too, at first I wasn't even sure if there was a snare :p the drums are buried under the rest of the instruments. Make them louderrr :D
I feel like the mix is a little cluttered, which is an ambiguous way of saying that there's too much stuff in the frequency range around the lead. The panning arps are occasionally getting in the way of the lead and distracting me from it.
I'm also not sure I like the lead, but take that with a LARGE grain of salt since as you know I think the only lead you should ever use ever is a square wave and the only way it could be better is if it has a little bit of distortion on it. :D
I really like the sound design, like right before the song really picks up, and the noises that outro the song. They sound really cool!
I am really pleased that you decided to do electronic music! Hooray for experimentation! Soon you will be doing it all the time mwa ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa.
I think your little guide inspired quite many people actually, hehhe...
It'd be awesome if you wrote more to it o.O!
Nau do it ;)
I actually agree with the stuff about the drum kit. This is one of the best drum kits I have, but it'd be best suited for jazz music, I think :/
Do you know anywhere I could download good, yet free drumkits?
Yeah, I totally have no idea what loudness my drums should have. While mixing, I tried to raise the volume of the percussion, but it didn't sound that good. That's probably because the kit doesn't match the rest of the song that well? Also, I would've probably ended up with clipping if I had raised it much more with the mix I had, so I would've had to redo everything at that point XD
There's probably a bit too much in the lead frequencies yeah. I have a few pads playing at points in the background where you can barely hear them (I can, as I know where they are), but I'm thinking they are a bit unnecessary, at least at certain points. They too are not in the same, but very close frequencies.
I like the panning arps, but I do get what you mean. Maybe the melody is so fresh in my memory that I can detect it through all the other things in the track, so that I didn't notice the clutter. I always view my tracks differently when I haven't heard them in a while, as my mind is not as focused on all the different parts and precisely what they play at all times XD
As for the leads, I'll indeed take your advice with a huge grain of salt, heh. While square waves are good, I like variation. I also think that different kinds of leads give you different feels, even with the same chords and melodies, which means that I can express much more with just the intrument choices I make. And after all, while this may have aspects of it at points, this is not chiptune XD
It's great to hear that you like the sound design! I spend some time trying to find cool effects in Zebralette and Firebird, some to get a more roboty feel, and others just for fun.
I'm a bit surprised that nobody has mentioned the bass in this track yet, as I think it feels a bit inconsistent at points. Maybe it had such a low volume that no one noticed it XD?
Yay! It was fun to make something electronic for a change. But at the point that I will be making only that, you will be making only ambient and maybe even atonal music ;)
That, or we both just revert to the piano... :)
Thank you a great deal for the awesome review johnfn!
P.S. Sorry for the late response! I was out partying the whole day yesterday, basically :p
I really like the sound design. It's really all over the place in what inspirations you're drawing, but it still sounds cohesive. Like, it starts out sounding wild west, but then it somehow transitions to futuristic... and back... it's weird. I really like the "guitar"mnispheres (i presume) in the beginning of the track, the vibes(?) at 1:52... and a bunch more. The slower melodies are great. I think I'm going to borrow some of your sound design ideas for my current track ^_^ I also the triplets or 4 over 3 or whatever. It has a great rhythmic quality to it. I should do that sometime...
I'm undecided on the crazy panning on the lead heh. I'm listening only on headphones, which is probably why it bothers me. I think if it was on speakers it wouldn't bother me at all.
I concur with TaintedLogic that melodies should not be faded in because that actually makes them fly under the radar, so to speak. The mixing actually sounds a little off to me. Like, the bass and drums are not loud enough, I think. The bass stands out to me. For instance, the "drop" at 1:11 seems so cool but it ends up being slightly underwhelming because no real bass kicks in.
I think the solos could be a little more evocative, they kinda fly all over the place. Try using the pentatonic scale. I heard all the cool kids are doing it. :p
Great song! SOUND DESIGN HOW DOES IT WORK?!?
P.S. LOL I was just about to reprimand you because I thought this song was insanely quiet. Then I realized that the volume on the Newgrounds player was set to 20/100. I'manub.
So... sound design was fun. I did draw from a lot of things, including non-NG works by a guy called Fourge, another person called Chrome Sparks, apparently the Starcraft soundtrack without realizing it.
The panning was something I thought was pretty cool, it's just an autopan from left to right and back again.
The lead fading in was, again, to keep it from being perfectly sudden, which it was without the filtering. It is also once again very clearly heard if you have good headphones or speakers - that said, it's meant to fade in. If you compare it with the later lead section, the second one doesn't have nearly as smooth a transition into that section. It isn't meant to be nearly as intense at that point either. :v
As for mixing of the drums...
<mixing lecture>
There is *plenty* of bass during that section. However, it's all in the kicks. The kicks have a lot of deep bass, which actually interferes with the main bass instrument. The bass instrument is roughly at 80-150hz, whereas the kicks have their initial hit around 120hz but then move down all the way to around 30-40hz. Main thing about that is they need that initial hit in order to have the right impact, but that initial hit disrupts the normal bass sound. Later in the piece around 3:23 onward you can hear how the bass is sidechained with the kick to prevent distortion and muddied frequencies from both of them hitting at the same time (since lower frequencies can't handle that much hitting the same frequencies at once as a general rule - try it sometime). With all the kicks going on in the middle section, the normal bass would be chopped up so much as to sound like complete shit.
</mixing lecture> <point about Apple>
That said, it's actually possible that you hear them very quietly because you use a mac - with default hardware and software settings the lower bass frequencies on a mac are significantly reduced if not cut off entirely (tested by cross-comparing with a good and bad soundcard on a standard dell laptop and the default soundcard as well as a good quality one on an iMac, using the same pair of ATH-m50 headphones). Given the heavy amount of lower bass frequencies there, it's entirely possible that those frequencies were cutting off or reduced, making those instruments seem particularly quiet.
</point about Apple>
In any case, there is no actual bass instrument during that section - but there are plenty of bass frequencies (aside from when there's no kick like with the snare rolls, of course <3).
I like my blues scale thank you very much, it harmonizes nearly as well as the pentatonic scale but also requires *some* skill to sound harmonic. >:( My goodness, kids these days...
Anyway. Got it, got it, can't entirely agree about the mixing things since it was tested on a full soundcard with multiple speaker/headphone systems with regard to the bass and the lead was very much intentional for the sake of transition and atmosphere. :v
Solos I can understand for certain. Again more of a personal thing like the initial lead filter but I definitely get that.
Anyway (x2), got it. Much thanks for the review, always good to hear your perspective! :)
Congrats on winning! I'm glad your music is getting some recognition :-)
This is a really cool piece. I think my favorite idea was the slightly detuned horns in the first half (e.g 1:16!). I am starting to enjoy that sort of atonal/detuned stuff. Not quite enough to use it in my own music I don't think hehe but you never know...
Thanks, mate! I'm sure that if you were to find a way to use atonal/detuned elements in your music you would use it tastefully alongside your melodies and superb production that would then give you even more of a unique voice from others in your genre. That would be exciting!
Really good! I really like the opening with the epic choir/organ (come on, it's such a great classic combo!) I also like the section leading right after that.
I looove the arpeggiating baseline in the 'main' section of the track. It sounds great! The one thing that stands out to me in the main section (e.g. 2:14) is the snare. I think this piece could be even better with a sharper more driving snare. Also I think that that vocal synth (also at 2:14) just sounds silly. Everything else though sounds great. Solo at 2:50 sounds pretty good, though I don't really like the timbre of the instrument. I *do* like the stop/start at 3:10 though. That's really fun! :D
Really fun track, great work :o You know how much I like the electric/orchestral combination. Or if you didn't, you do now. :D
Thank you Johnfn :)
Aww I like the vocal synth for some reason xD I guess it's a personal thing, some will like it and some wont.
Thanks again for reviewing!
Hhaha awesome!!! The ending made me grin. It is pretty much perfect.
The one thing I wanted to mention compositionally was that the "main melody" (e.g. 3:22), the chord progression should go G -> D -> C -> G -> bm -> C -> G -> One more chord that I can't remember. The chords you were playing seemed a little indistinct to me but imo that bm is really important because it adds that tinge of sadness!! :p
The other thing (I lied when I said one thing) is the instrument choice. Your instrument choice could be better, I think. The instruments could have more expression to them (like vibrato, pitch bend, legato phrases... etc) This is actually the biggest problem I have with the track. I would highly recommend to try to recreate some of your favorite instruments from other tracks. I mean, you know how I love my smooth leads and all, but you don't have to go down that exact same route. For example, the vibrato at :22 just doesn't make any sense to me. The lead instrument at 1:35 is just, I dunno, it just seems the wrong guy to be carrying that melody.
The composition is pretty good (wait, am I just complementing myself? :D) but I think you can do better! I thought you did do a pretty good job of fleshing out like 20 seconds of content into a full song. Very cool to see.
Wait, is that little riff at 1:05 a reference to "you win!"? Ok... it's probably not. Still that would be pretty funny. It definitely fits with the theme of "Good Ending" xD
P.S. Also who is this mysterious "johnfm" fellow that RealFaction keeps talking about?!? I gotta meet him.
Our main melody went G-D-C-G-D-C-G-D for the first eight bars (we spent a while writing out what we thought you played on a whiteboard). We never even considered B minor, but in hindsight, knowing your penchant for sad sad, we probably should've realized.
I hope replacing bm with D works in this scenario, since they're just mode-shifted scales with the same sharps. Having a bm in the middle of the chorus would add a little bit of sadness to what would be an otherwise uplifting and happy piece. :P
=> instrument choice =>
Agh! I was using a MIDI keyboard, and I even had access to pitchbend and mod wheels, but I thought 'I probably shouldn't use these, it would unnecessarily complicate the song'. I don't have much experience in picking lead instruments for details like what you mentioned, but I'll definitely be on the lookout for those kinds of things from now on.
=> vibrato at 0:22 =>
? I'm not quite sure what you mean... You mean just the main instrument that plays during this part?
=> 1:35 =>
I actually like that lead instrument quite a lot! :( I guess it has more merit on its own, though. It's also the same lead used for another of my songs whose composition I enjoy - Glass Sky! I guess I am a bit partial to it. :P
=> am I just complimenting myself? =>
Yes.
=> 1:05 =>
SO THAT'S WHERE IT CAME FROM! I wrote the riff, and I was like 'no. this can't be right. this sounds too johnfn not to be accidentally stolen from some johnfn song.' But I just couldn't find it as a riff in any of your songs. I didn't look at 'you win!', though! Thanks! I stole more from you than I thought. :D
=> johnfm =>
Your comments have better endings than your songs. :D
Great job, ChronoNomad. Pull that piano out of the mix a little bit - put it right in the center where it belongs (when the strings come in, the piano is hidden behind them a little, see 2:22), and fix the velocities on the notes, it sounds very mechanical right now. And replace those drums with something that sounds better - use some reference tracks if you're not sure exactly what would fit. Free drum packs are EVERYWHERE online, so you have no excuse >:)
This song has everything that I like. It's got acoustic guitar. It's got piano. It's got descending baselines and modulations. It's got great melodies. It's even got different sections and horns. You fix those 2.5 issues I mentioned and this is the BEST TRACK EVER.
I hardly enough know what to say. You're a hard fella to impress, so I'm admittedly a bit speechless... Fortunately, I can still type a little. Shifting the piano to the center is easy peasy, and I don't want it to be overshadowed by anything else, so good call. I'll have to think about what to do with the velocities since they're already exceedingly variable. I suppose they could use a bit of tweaking here and there, though I guess it just doesn't jump out at me as much in most places. As for the drums, I suppose the hats could be improved a bit, but I'm quite fond of the kick. The sidestick is absolutely vital; nothing else sounds as good in its place. My only complaint with the drum kit itself (DSK DrumZ - MachineZ) is that the note strength doesn't change with velocity adjustments for some reason. Rather odd, that.
Everything that you like, eh? That's it! Now I know the secret formula! Acoustic guitar, piano, descending bass lines and modulations...CHECK! I feel quite honored to receive almost full marks from you, and I'll see what can be done with those 2.5 issues you've mentioned. Thanks a ton for the in-depth review, my friend! Much appreciated. ^___^
Back To Life 
~Witz~ Leap of Faith (Electro Mix) 
T-Logic - Architeuthis 
The Dream of a Robot 
~SW~ The Brain Cycle 
Costa Concordia 
Our Last Hope 
Shimmer 
For Those Who Remain True 
