What a great track! (Except why is that amazing whistle so far back in the mix rarg.) Why don't you write more music? Well I guess there's NGADM coming up so I'm hyped for that but I mean other than competitions. Hehe.
What a great track! (Except why is that amazing whistle so far back in the mix rarg.) Why don't you write more music? Well I guess there's NGADM coming up so I'm hyped for that but I mean other than competitions. Hehe.
Competitions are what get the blood moving for new music! It's hard to find time these days, so when I have a fire under my butt I get more done. Looking forward to seeing what you put out! Thanks for the review! (I will make the tin whistle more prominent next time!)
In the category of "johnfn's biggest NGAUC disappointments", coming in at a 2000 pt score, what is Jabicho and Peachymaiden not making it to the finals? This song is not perfect - the mixing, while better, still needs a lot of work - but it is still a fantastic piece! It's just beautiful - the composition is, again, excellent, and I absolutely love the live cello. I'm wondering if the slower pace dragged it down a little in score, though it doesn't personally bother me all too much.
Keep it up, you guys! My hypothetical overall score for this one would be something like 9 - 9.5/10
Thanks johnfn! :D I learnt a lot from your mixing suggestions in this song and the previous one! (and I'm still learning)
And thanks for the review! I'm happy you like this song! it means a lot :)
I'm very thankul for all your words! (I'm sure peachy too!) :D
== I wasn't your judge for the NGAUC but then you send me a PM asking me to review this track so I figured that sounded like an acceptable thing to do ==
First things first. You gotta get better instruments. Consider this your official commandment to learn sound design, or at least find some good presets. Honestly, when I do sound design, 80% is finding a close preset, and 20% is tweaking that preset to get what I want. So you could get 80% of the way there with practically no effort, hehe.
The sounds that you're using currently have 100% maximum cheese factor to them. That can work... sometimes... usually if your song is really sad. This song is not sad. Not in the slightest. :P
I would normally point you in the direction of some similar songs here, so that you have a direction to go in, but in this case I'm not really sure of any super happy upbeat techno. Well, there's obviously chiptune, so you could do something like https://soundcloud.com/ko0x/never-alone or https://soundcloud.com/jayster6721/foreign-grove But I assume that you don't always want to write chiptune (WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU).
There's also the interesting case of the melody at 1:33. It's actually a pretty good melody in that the way that you end it by going downwards is well done. And yet it doesn't captivate me as much as it should, which is weird. What a mystery! And it's not just related to that melody. In fact, I think that all melodies are being dragged down a little bit, for some mysterious reason. What could it be, detective johnfn? Well, I'd say that the #1 suspect is...
THE CHORD PROGRESSION. (In the midrange with a tonic.)
Behold the following mathematical chart based in 100% mathematical reality and following mathematical laws (which I actually dreamed up the other day, not even having heard this song):
Sad Chords + Sad Melody = Sad Song
Sad Chords + Happy Melody = Dancy/Edgy song (my song Light Up is a good example)
Happy Chords + Sad Melody = Wistful song
Happy chords + Happy Melody = DANGER: CHEESY ZONE
(To be 100% accurate, happy + happy doesn't always equal cheese, but it's pretty darn hard to avoid until you get really good.)
Your song has the happiest chord progression ever, and then you put the happiest melody on top... it's too much happiness! (That, and the sound design.) I'm just imagining if you did your progression now, but every other bar you did iii -> IV -> V -> I instead, I think that would add a bit of variation and make the song better. And if you varied up your progression even more, it could be EVEN BETTER.
The melody is not bad. But if you tweaked the progression to be more moody, then the melody would really shine. As it is, I can't really get into it because it's too happy. Also, it gets repeated a little too often, but that could be helped with a different progression, too.
Other assorted nit-picks: I think that I hear some clipping around 1:09.
Also, the song needs a little more bass. You have a bass instrument, but it's not as low as I'd hope.
Hypothetical overall score: 7 or 7.5 depending on how generous I was feeling, hehe. I see that every other judge gave you a 7.5 so who am I to disagree? :P
Hypothetical mini-scores
* Mixing: 3+/4
* Composition: 3/4
* Arrangement: 4/4
BIG REVIEW ALERT
=> better instruments =>
I guess I didn't have enough time to tweak them to the right sounds. :P I don't have much of an ear for sound design; that's a goal I really ought to work towards in the future :D
=> maximum cheese factor =>
This is something people have been saying to me for YEARS :D
=> similar songs =>
Ah, both of those I've already listened to from your brilliant newspost! But I get the idea of what you're talking about.
=> you don't always want to write chiptune =>
I was originally going to write a chiptune song for the round! Okay, and orchestral song that turned into an orchestral/chiptune hybrid that just turned into chiptune. But then I came up with this melody and that all fell apart :D
=> 1:33 melody going downwards =>
Yes I definitely did that on purpose because I am a theory god and it was no way unintentional
=> THE CHORD PROGRESSION =>
Uh oh.
=> mathematical chart =>
I talked to LSD about this, and he seems to disagree with it :D But I can think of examples for each of the things you mentioned and see the reason behind them, and that's something I'll definitely have to consider in future songs!
=> too much happiness =>
Well, if you like being grumpy and sad all the time :3
=> iii > IV > V > I =>
Hmm, lemme try this.
...
Wow, that's really good! Although the V>I thing at the end kind of gives it a feeling that it's finishing there, whereas the melody repeats a lot, so I'd kind of want to give it that continuous feeling. I would definitely use this as an ending for each chorus, though!
=> 1:09 clipping =>
HOW?! Just... how did you hear this? You are a true mixmaster.
=> bass =>
I set the bass when I first started writing the beginning, didn't change it, and got used to it :/ It does need a better bass instrument, I agree.
=> Arrangement: 4/4 =>
?!!?!?!!??!
Thank you so much for the amazing review! I'll take all of this advice to heart and make future uploads less... dangerously cheesy. :D:D
== This is an NGAUC Knock-Out Round Review ==
Ah, more heavy metal!
Man, I have to say that the riff that you lead with is pretty great. You’re using some weird scale that I can’t even identify. I love this stuff. And then you lead into another riff, and that one is good too! The whole song segues through different heavy metal parts really well, and that leaves the song sounding very varied and interesting throughout.
However, I did find myself wishing you’d break away from the insane riffing just a little more than you did. A breakdown with, say, acoustic guitar, or maybe something crazy like piano, could really do wonders here to make the song even more varied and interesting.
Like other people mentioned, the drums in this track are lacking a lot of umph. The best way to fix this is going to sound so simple that you might not even believe me, but just bear with me: turn the volume of the drums UP, and turn the volume of every other channel DOWN. :P Yes, it will really work. Just don’t go overboard and make the drums too loud.
The other thing you should know is how to get that kick to come through. You can fix the kick in particular by high passing all your non-bass instruments, so that only the bass of your kick and your bass guitar are coming through in the low end. This will make the kick come through much better!
All in all, this is a pretty great song - it just needs the mix to be tidied up a little, and perhaps a breakdown or two, to be really solid. Keep it up!
Overall Score: 7.5/10
Mini-Scores (see here: http://johnfn.newgrounds.com/news/post/936953):
* Composition: 3/4
* Arrangement: 3/4
* Mixing: 2/4
Thanks for the in depth review :) glad to hear you enjoyed it! Nice idea trying to work some piano in, sounds like a challenge but it's worth thinking about.
Will definitely try upping the drums a little! If it's really as simple as volume levels and giving the kick a bit of a boost like you mentioned then that's great news lol
== This is an NGAUC Knock-Out Round Review ==
Whoa! Even on the first listen, I was really taken aback by this piece. All the set pieces of EDM are there, but you take it in a much different direction - a direction that has really cool sounding chords and melodies.
I have to say, your melodies and solos are really unique and cool. The melodies and chord progressions are probably my favorite aspect of this piece, and that is just SO satisfying to say in a genre where melodies and progressions are usually eschewed in favor of loud obnoxious build ups
I really enjoy the processing that you’ve put on that lead. There is this really bizarre effect that happens when you pitch-bend it - it’s almost as if it splits into a bunch of little leads and they pitch-bend at different times. I’ve never heard anything quite like that, and it’s a very cool, effective idea that adds to the trippy atmosphere of the piece. The sound design is great, which I could tell almost immediately upon opening your track and hearing the nice plucks.
The mixing is on point as well. The kick and snare are loud as heck - almost too loud, perhaps?
I have to say, this piece is pretty friggin' good. The way that you’ve taken EDM and turned it inside out, with interesting chord progressions, cool effects and processing that I’ve never heard before is pretty impressive. Well done.
Overall Score: 8.5/10
Mini-Scores (see here: http://johnfn.newgrounds.com/news/post/936953):
* Composition: 3+/4
* Arrangement: 4/4
* Mixing: 4/4
Thank you for your great review! And thank you so much for being a part of choosing me to be in the knock-out round! To be honest I would've liked to hear more of how I could've improved! Haha but nonetheless it's good to know the strengths I can focus on. Thank you so much.
I'm very glad you appreciated my take on EDM. I love to hear artists like FEED ME or VARIEN or WRLD do much more complicated things with their music. I love to hear unique complicated chord progressions, the ones that grab your ear like "ooooooooooooh whats that" and then force you to pull out your old theory notebooks and figure it out yourself. (If you're a theory nerd like me) That kind of feeling was my biggest inspiration for the chord structure of this song. Which is what I started with and built off of as well. The melody was one of those things where you play the chord progression over and over, and have an idea of your drop, and then you just sit there and listen over and over, until you start to hear a melody. and then slowly let it form into the program. One that just....speaks to you xD 0.o.
The effect you're hearing on the lead is simply a delay on the voice, automated to turn up JUST on the end of the voice, so that it only delays that little tail end of the phrase when i pitch bend it up and down, and timed just right so it sound unnatural and kind of makes you not realize it's a delay at all. I'm glad you appreciated it it was a big effect I wanted to sell. YAY. Wanted to add that kind of transcendent out of body experience-likeness to it, the kind of feeling you'd have if you were actually free flying. Like "is this really happening?"..."Descending back to reality...." (?)
And as I said with SkyeWint, I'm glad the mixing was appreciated by you guys, I'm going to make sure I use similar techniques and levels in my knockout round piece, cause this was the first time I think I hit the sweet spot in my mix. I can't forget how to do that. (yay FL 12 for being so streamlined)
Well once again, Thank you for being a part of choosing me to be one of the ones to move on. I'm a little shocked, extremely happy, and very nervous to start my next song.
== This is an NGAUC Knock-Out Round Review ==
Now this is a really interesting track. I can’t say that I’ve heard anything even close to similar in the NGAUC so far, and that is usually a good thing.
The massive wall of guitars and feedback is a really good idea, and I think that they do a very good job of feeling powerful, yet emotional. However, the problem is that you seem to have trouble keeping them under control - they muddy up the mix, obscuring the drums and the piano, which both desperately need to be louder (the drums more so than the piano).
I’m not totally sold on the intro. The piano sounds very mechanical (this is a pet peeve of mine, as a pianist :P) - you need to vary those velocities - and honestly, I’m not even sure if it’s necessary. However, the sudden transition into heavy metal is effective.
I do like the dissonance - it can be a very effective way to bring about emotion - but what I don’t like is when the notes are straight up off key, like the piano is around 1:43. (This is also a good example of where the piano buried in the mix.)
It may seem like I’ve been pretty critical during this review, and I have, but there’s one thing that has really been a saving grace throughout this song: the great progression! The progression in combination with the guitars just works so darn well, and you accentuate it with little piano flourishes in just the right ways, that I’m willing to overlook some of the mixing issues because the track has such a great mood behind it.
So this track’s mix definitely needs to be reigned in, but I see a really good song buried in it. Keep at it.
Overall Score: 7.5/10
Mini-Scores (see here: http://johnfn.newgrounds.com/news/post/936953):
* Composition: 3+/4
* Arrangement: 3/4
* Mixing: 1/4
Interesting and different are two of my favorite adjectives to have attributed to me and/or my work, so thank you! People always said I'd be great as some kind of undiscovered mold or fungus, but that career didn't really pan out for me, as I am a human.
The guitars were definitely a bit of a struggle to mix, and it's something that tugged on the corner of my mind after i submitted the song for sure. I messed around with mixing for a while but that's just something i haven't quite gotten the hang of yet. I've come a long way over the past few months, so seeing a 1/4 for the mixing is a bit disheartening but i definitely understand why it's so low.
As for the piano intro, in fairness to me I DID actually mess with the velocity of the notes, but I guess the velocities weren't varied enough? That or the instrument i was using(a sampler that comes with Reason) doesn't actually change the sounds when you change the notes' velocities. or option number 3, which is i don't know how piano velocities look or how it's supposed to sound when played naturally. Could I tell the difference if my MIDI version and an actual human played version were played back to back? most definitely. But I'm not quite sure how to take a MIDI composition and translate that into something a little more human, not yet. Something to work on, i guess, but I digress;
The atonal part at 1:43 was a straight fuck up on my part. I was messing around with making a variance on the intro riff but couldn't find anything that sounded good, and i guess i just forgot to put those few notes back in place. Kind of a facepalm moment for me, to be honest haha. And yeah, duly noted about the mix.
I don't at all fault you for being critical. It never feels good to hear people think anything less of your own creations than you do yourself, but to deny or ignore these things is far worse in my opinion. You've really helped me outline my strong points(ambience and progression, if I'm understanding everything right) while letting those strong points highlight what is holding the project back, which is really the best way to review something. Thanks for the advice!
== This is an NGAUC Knock-Out Round Review ==
So, first things first. HOLY CRAP. This piece has a lot of energy. A LOT. I can’t remember hearing a piece with so much energy. It’s pretty freaking nuts. And of course it’s totally a chiptune thing to go completely overboard with energy levels, so you totally nailed that. Well done!
I have to commend you for trying something new for this competition! That’s what competitions are all about, after all - learning! Well, that and crushing your foes, but mostly learning. :P With a few reservations, which I’ll get into later, this experiment was a success.
I know a lot of people are going to say that the drums are not authentic chiptune drums and you should therefore feel bad about yourself (or something), but I say: ignore them. It’s totally valid to do chiptune with non-chiptune drums, and the results can sometimes be awesome. I think your drum choice worked pretty darn well here, though perhaps you could have chosen a slightly more beefier kit.
I also think that your glitching was a pretty cool touch.
But yeah, this track has some problems, so let’s get into those. The largest problem, by far, is the repetitive nature of the track. You repeat the main riff far too much. In my mind, the absolute longest that I would have been okay with you repeating the riff would be up to :47. That’s the point where I started thinking on my first listen that this track was repetitive. Unfortunately, you continue to repeat it up until 1:22, and then you bring it back shortly after and loop it for the rest of the track. This is too much - it makes it sound like you are out of ideas and the song starts to become grating.
The mixing is generally pretty solid. My only complaints would be that the bass might be a little too loud - dominating the rest of the frequency spectrum even when it shouldn’t be - and sometimes the mix sounds slightly cluttered, for instance when you have two mid-range instruments going at 3:37 (the melody and the arp).
I am not very convinced by the solo at 2:10. The instrument just doesn’t sound right to me - it’s not nearly aggressive enough for the rest of this insanely aggressive song, and I think the melody could be a bit more interesting (and faster!)
So overall, this is a pretty neat track, but it has a very large flaw - the repetition! Without that, I think this track would have been much more solid.
Overall Score: 6.5/10
Mini-Scores (see here: http://johnfn.newgrounds.com/news/post/936953):
* Composition: 3/4
* Arrangement: 1/4
* Mixing: 3+/4
Thank you very much for the review, John!! It really helps a lot!! :D
I learnt so many positive things by participating on NGAUC!! XD
== This is an NGAUC Knock-Out Round Review ==
First things first. Your composition is on point! The melodies are perfect for the scene that you’re trying to portray. The melody you open (and close) with is perfectly mournful. You later harmonize it with a vocal-sounding instrument at :59, which is a great decision. You then move into a separate section exactly when I hoped that you would, and the two sections work together perfectly! This kind of thing makes me happy.
Not only that, but the instrumentation is excellent too. I wish I knew what all these instruments were called, but sadly I barely do any orchestral music, so I really have no clue. :P Nonetheless, both the pluck and flute-like instrument at :22 are excellent, as is the reverb that you put on, and the very quiet background pad. It sounds to me like you also cut off some of the highs of the instruments here, which is, again, an awesome choice! It makes the piece sound distant in a way that really heightens the melancholy.
I really enjoy the stripped down arrangement here - it works perfectly for the mood. The gradual build at 2:05 is great, though I admit that I wish that you would have signaled it coming from a little earlier. I’m also not a huge fan of how the climax of the piece is just repeated twice - I think it should feel a little different the second time around, to maintain my interest.
I even hear a couple of really neat chords, like the brief appearance of a minor major seventh at 1:24.
A curious thing happens at 2:15, though. The bass is building and so I am expecting a more emotional section to come - and then suddenly right at 2:15, all the bass drops away. This was kind of disappointing - I was hoping for a fully fleshed out climax, but none came!
I also have a minor quibble with the end of the piece - it sounds like the song is stumbling around a little . For instance, is there a reason that the note at 2:38 is held an extra couple of beats? I hear this happen a couple of times towards the end of the track, and I’m left wondering why - it makes the song sound a little undirected.
Finally, although I do enjoy this piece, it could be improved, and if you really wanted to improve it - while still retaining the sparseness of the piece - I think you’d have to push your melodies a little harder. Yeah, they’re pretty darn good already, but if you really want to do a piece that doesn’t have much in the way of multiple instrument complexity or arrangement, the only real thing left to do is improve the melodies.
Overall Score: 8.5
Mini-Scores (see here: http://johnfn.newgrounds.com/news/post/936953):
* Composition: 4/4
* Arrangement: 3/4
* Mixing: 4/4
Thanks for the review and for staying happy :)
I admit I did get a little lazy with repeated the string part twice. I'll likely update it when I later come back to this project. Hopefully I'll also focus on the bass buildup part as well.
i always forget to respond to PMs. its not because i hate you, just because i forgot!!!
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