I enjoy the bass melody right off the bat, it's probably my favorite melody you've written! The snare at :33 stands out because it's pretty much the only thing going. Clap at :48 sounds like the FL studio stock clap... not a huge deal though.
A minor note is the variation in the bassline that you do at, for example, 2:32, is unnecessary. This is a classic mistake people make when they are starting music production - they keep listening to the same melody 100 times and start to get tired of it, so they add unnecessary variations. I'm not going to listen to it nearly as many times as you did while producing it, so your first few impressions of a melody are best. Rule of thumb is that if it sounds good the first 5 times, just keep it that way. :-)
By 1:08 I'm starting to feel that the song is lacking direction. Instruments are coming and going but there's no clear sense of buildup or any sort of groove that I can lock into. You could make some sort of notion of buildup by stacking instruments on top of each other to gradually increase loudness. Or I think that if you would have just kept that bass melody from the start going throughout the song, that would make the song feel much more coherent.
I do hear it every now and then though which is good.
Right now this song almost sounds like a series of separate songs, glued together. Keeping a coherent sense of song is really tough when you start out, I know. The easiest way to do this is to keep a consistent bassline. The second easiest way is to keep at least one consistent instrument.
Anyway I thought it was pretty neat despite all my complaints. Keep it up and I'd say to try to aim for a little more coherence in your next song. Good luck!
Thank you so much, Johnfn! :D Your reviews are a pleasure to read! I'm so glad you enjoyed the melody. About the stand-out drums: I originally was trying to make a DnB track out of this, but I thought it needed to be faster in order to be considered DnB. The clap at :48 is indeed an FL Studio stock clap (and it does sound like one, too, doesn't it?). The variation at 2:32 (which is actually just a slightly more layered and melodic version of the riffs at :31 and 1:07) is used mostly for transitional purposes. About the directionless nature of it, I thought that the builds at :41 and1:14, as well as the variations on the refrain at 2:48, made the piece seem quite climactic, but I recognize that someone who doesn't understand the structure as deeply as I do might overlook these details (perhaps that was the problem with "Luke's Island" too: that I established the structure too furtively?). The reason why I migrated away from the bass melody at various parts of the songs was because of the theme. This goes along with your comment about coherence. You see, the theme of this song is to represent both the "real" and the "surreal" musically, which, as in "Microcosm," I represented with a strong beat and bass-dominated section, and then a more atmospheric and melodic section, respectively. Thanks again, though, for another one of your excellent and thorough reviews, Johnfn! :D I'm looking forward to hearing your NGADM Round 2 submission! ;D
WOW. This is incredible. It blows your first NGADM piece out of the water, and that one was already amazing. I absolutely love that demented steam train whistle that goes every few seconds. It fits sooo well. I loved how it flows so easily through the different sections. Aside from the opening section, I felt like the section at 1:10 was a clear highlight. Those jazzy solos are just amazing. Like etherealwinds, I'm totally hearing the toy world thing, though to me it sounds slightly insane/crazy also. This is due in no small part to the awesome work with percussion and sound effects that you did in this piece.
I'm incredibly stingy with my 10/10s, which is why I'm keeping this at a 9 for now... but I feel like if the melodies were just a little better I would be forced to give it a 10. Regardless it's an amazing piece and if it's not one of the best of the round I'll eat my hat.
thank you so much for the review. im cool with 9, very kind of you actually hehe and i dont really believe in perfection because what people consider perfect is actually subjective and every subjective point of view is different so therefore perfection is not really perfect just because of people's different subjective point of view of what is perfect and because of this it may conflict with others... so yeah... anyways again thanks for listening haha
The good stuff is that I thought that the production was immaculate and the sound design and choices were just awesome. There's a lot of really fun percussion going on under the scenes. The music box sound effects are really awesome too. I think you completely nailed your goal of 'cave laboratory' (funny place to put a laboratory IMO, but who am I to judge?). Sounds to me like you're sneaking around on cat-walks as oblivious scientists below mix colored liquids. :-)
My biggest problem with this track is that the melody work felt a little less interesting than the work you had on your last few tracks for the same game. There are a few exceptions, particularly the 4 notes at 2:04, but overall it seems to lack some sort of spark. My other complaint, which you saw from a mile away, is that it does sound a LOT like steampianist. Notice how I didn't complain when you were inspired by me? ;-) (But really, I thought you took my style in a completely different direction.) This is a much more minor thing, so don't worry about it - I think it's important to draw from influences in order to grow as a musician! Though I think it's also important to combine your influences so no one can tell what you stole from. ;-)
(And melody is the most subjective part of music, so I might not have any idea what I'm talking about.)
Anyway, the good news is that the production is really awesome and all the detail work you did with the crazy hits and twisting of music boxes and constantly changing orchestral sounds is massively appreciated. Keep the melodic stuff in mind but don't stress out about it too much. Just know that old grumpy man johnfn is listening. :P
Oh man, your reviews are just some of the best ever. Thanks a million!
"The good stuff is that I thought that the production was immaculate"
Fantastic. I was having a bit of trouble actually; lots of stuff going on, especially in the low/lower mid range of frequencies, since I've got a thick cello section and 2 double basses, along with, of course, the drums, but I tried my hardest to stop it from sounding like a mudslide.
"and the sound design and choices were just awesome."
Sweet, thanks!
"The music box sound effects are really awesome too."
They are, aren't they? Just some sounds that come with the VST if you play notes in a really high octave. I thought they fit quite well!
"I think you completely nailed your goal of 'cave laboratory'"
That's what I was hoping to hear!
"(funny place to put a laboratory IMO, but who am I to judge?)."
Tell that to Batman!
"Sounds to me like you're sneaking around on cat-walks as oblivious scientists below mix colored liquids. :-)"
You're not the first to mention sneaking. Perhaps the pizzicato strings are doing that.
"My biggest problem with this track is that the melody work felt a little less interesting than the work you had on your last few tracks for the same game. There are a few exceptions, particularly the 4 notes at 2:04, but overall it seems to lack some sort of spark."
You know, I think I admittedly should've focused more on melody. I focused a lot more on the background, atmosphere, harmonies, etc, and as a result the melodies are mostly based heavily around the harmonic minor scale. I tried to do that to make it sound more artificial and machine-like, rather than making a melody with a bit more expression like that of The Festival or Sky's the Limit, but I agree it would've been better if I nailed a better balance between making it sound machine-like and still making the melody more interesting.
"My other complaint, which you saw from a mile away, is that it does sound a LOT like steampianist."
Oh yeah x_x.
"Notice how I didn't complain when you were inspired by me? ;-) (But really, I thought you took my style in a completely different direction.)"
True, this one's just a direct copy of the style steampianist had.
"This is a much more minor thing, so don't worry about it - I think it's important to draw from influences in order to grow as a musician! Though I think it's also important to combine your influences so no one can tell what you stole from. ;-)"
Haha, I really couldn't help it though. I tried attempt after attempt to make something that fits for both a cave and a laboratory... first throwing in some synths and arps on top of a booming drum background, then heavily-reverbed guitars on top of a drum kit, then I don't even remember what I did. Deadline was approaching, so (like I did for Sky's the Limit) I decided to randomly listen to some NGADM artists' music. Came across ZipZipper's and steampianist's and I might've taken it too far haha.
"(And melody is the most subjective part of music, so I might not have any idea what I'm talking about.)"
It is indeed, but I agree the melody was kinda boring!
"Anyway, the good news is that the production is really awesome and all the detail work you did with the crazy hits and twisting of music boxes and constantly changing orchestral sounds is massively appreciated. Keep the melodic stuff in mind but don't stress out about it too much. Just know that old grumpy man johnfn is listening. :P"
Old grumpy man johnfn is what keeps me on my toes! Thanks for the detailed criticism; I need to repay you with some super huge review eventually; shame the NGADM is taking so much of my time x_x.
I think you deserve some good reviews because of all the work you did on NGADM :D
This is really great.
I'm definitely hearing some stylistic similarities to The Festival. The first half is chill, the second half is much more upbeat. In the Festival I found that the first half was a little lacking in melodic interest, but I think you improved on that a lot in the first half of this song. I particularly like the light piano melody at :42.
There's a buildup at :42 that doesn't really go anywhere and a bit of a quiet gap before the piano starts up at :49. I'm not sure how I feel about it. It works, but at the same time I found myself wondering if it was intentional.
Hats at :49 stand out a little bit. Would be better if you introduced them as the piano is going rather than in silence. Or maybe a touch of reverb on them when they aren't backed by very much. Or just turn down the volume a tiny bit.
I would love just a tiny bit more going on at 1:11. Like a subtle countermelody going would improve it a little I think. I like how it sounds right now, but after the buildup it sounds a tiny (just a tiny!) bit empty. I like the syncopated white noise here.
The lead at 1:30 is really really awesome. (Is that my influence? Heheh.) The vibrato was a brilliant touch. The chord progression is really unique and delightful. (I had to open up the DAW to figure out what it was. C# -> E -> B -> C#. Interesting... Shouldn't that C be a minor? How does that even music-theoretically work? I don't know a lot of music theory. Sounds great though.) My biggest critique for this song was that I think that the solo could be double it's current length. It's so awesome I want more! I was really really hoping for it to soar (heh) into an upper octave and do some stuff up there. This is a problem we've discussed before >:D Though I really like how you come down from the solo with the piano riff you introduced before.
I really like the idea of bitcrushing your white noise. It adds a lot of flavor and crunchiness to the mix. I can see myself using that in the future! Your use of the noise throughout the whole track is well done.
Awesome stuff. Would play this game just to listen to the soundtrack ;-)
Oh man, thanks a lot for yet another detailed review! These really make my day.
"I think you deserve some good reviews because of all the work you did on NGADM :D"
Aww how thoughtful ^_^.
"I'm definitely hearing some stylistic similarities to The Festival. The first half is chill, the second half is much more upbeat. In the Festival I found that the first half was a little lacking in melodic interest, but I think you improved on that a lot in the first half of this song. I particularly like the light piano melody at :42."
Two friends of mine tell me that the intro of The Festival is the only reason why people should listen to the track, because the second half isn't as good. Others tell me the second half is much better. To be honest I agree mostly with you lol. This is indeed following that same style of "first half mellow, second half upbeat". I also included a melody from the intro of The Festival.
"There's a buildup at :42 that doesn't really go anywhere and a bit of a quiet gap before the piano starts up at :49. I'm not sure how I feel about it. It works, but at the same time I found myself wondering if it was intentional."
I actually love how that transitions haha. It's a similar transition to the one in The Festival, where everything builds up, stops, and starts again. I think it worked well for the whole theme of flying; thought 0:42 could be envisioned as the listener jumping off the hill, and spreading his/her wings so to speak, and then there's a moment of slow-motion-esque silence, and when the hats come in at 0:46 the listener realises that flying is actually kind of cool.
I don't do this whole "think of scenes for my music" kind of thing as you probably have guessed by now :3.
"Hats at :49 stand out a little bit. Would be better if you introduced them as the piano is going rather than in silence. Or maybe a touch of reverb on them when they aren't backed by very much. Or just turn down the volume a tiny bit."
Whoops, you're totally right. I'll get to work on that.
"I would love just a tiny bit more going on at 1:11. Like a subtle countermelody going would improve it a little I think. I like how it sounds right now, but after the buildup it sounds a tiny (just a tiny!) bit empty. I like the syncopated white noise here."
Good call. Might add a pulsing pad over there. Nice catch with the syncopated white noise - first time I'm doing something like that. I've heard it done before, thought I should give it a shot.
"The lead at 1:30 is really really awesome. (Is that my influence? Heheh.) The vibrato was a brilliant touch. "
Actually the whole setup of the song is inspired from Biohome! The piano, the piano's grace notes, the drums, and especially the lead. I was going to throw in a guitar but then I thought that would really make it sound like a ripoff haha. I'm really glad you like the vibrato - vibrato just works so well for square synths! Square synths are also the best kind of synths out there, unquestionably. I love them so much ;_;.
"The chord progression is really unique and delightful. (I had to open up the DAW to figure out what it was. C# -> E -> B -> C#. Interesting... Shouldn't that C be a minor? How does that even music-theoretically work? I don't know a lot of music theory. Sounds great though.)"
I have no idea how it works haha. The song can't really decide whether it's major or minor :3. Sometimes I thought using the major third (we're in C# so F would be the major third) worked and other times I thought using the minor third (E) worked.
"My biggest critique for this song was that I think that the solo could be double it's current length. It's so awesome I want more! I was really really hoping for it to soar (heh) into an upper octave and do some stuff up there. This is a problem we've discussed before >:D "
Yuuup, you're so right. I am still going through that nasty writer's block (I get it a lot when making music for games since I find it hard to make music that follows someone else's requirements on command), so I don't think I'll be able to extend that melody without it sounding forced.
"Though I really like how you come down from the solo with the piano riff you introduced before."
That's actually one of my favourite things about this track.
"I really like the idea of bitcrushing your white noise. It adds a lot of flavor and crunchiness to the mix. I can see myself using that in the future! Your use of the noise throughout the whole track is well done."
Bitcrushing (nearly wrote Britcrushing for a second there) is so tasty! Ever since I started using it I've become hooked, and now I almost follow the mindset of "doesn't sound good? Bitcrush it".
"Awesome stuff. Would play this game just to listen to the soundtrack ;-)"
That means a lot! Thank you for such a great review - good thing you reviewed when you did, so now while I fix the looping issue that GamekrazzyProduction mentioned, I can fix the issues you mentioned (except doubling the length of the solo which I don't know if I can do x_x).
Dang I don't know how I missed this one before the results of NGADM came out. I really really like your style. It's absolutely distinctive in a way that takes a lot of work and I'm totally jealous of.
Much like ZipZipper's song I felt like this one only kicks into high gear towards the end - to be specific, I always turn up the song at 2:50. The rest of the song is very good, but I like this part especially. And then there's a really wonderful modulation at 3:15. Awesome.
The judges rightfully chose this one as one of the best of the round. It is that good. Keep it up!!
I don't listen to a lot of metal - it's pretty much on the completely opposite end of the spectrum from my preferred genre, which is something like "people singing quitely and playing acoustic guitar" - but I thought this was totally great. I was just listening along and then I unintentionally started bobbing my head. Really solid and diverse solos!
I'd like a break or two from the machine-gun drums and guitars, but as a non-metalhead you can take my opinion with a pinch of salt :-)
The composition here is very good, but like the others I'm hearing some serious clipping at the climax. The way to fix this is very simple: take any limiters off your master, and then turn all your volume levels down until you're no longer going into the red. Easy, right? :P (I think half of the problem is being able to hear the clipping in the first place. I hear it around 1:44, and then again around 2:23). Seriously, if you just follow this one simple step you will solve like 80% of your mixing issues.
Composition was very good, as was sound choices. The piece sounds epic in the true sense of the word. I would only like a little bit more melodic variation to make the piece complete.
Thanks for the review.
Haha that does sound very simple but I think you are right about the "not hearing it' thing. I am going to have to change the way I listen to my tracks.
I have a fixed version of this which I will upload after the NGADM.
I think I will work the melodic variation too.
Thanks again!
Your main motif is totally gorgeous. Definitely getting those JRPG vibes. My favorite part of it is that little flair at the end (0:35). After a little bit of thought I realized it reminded me of the Pokemon intro music! (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq2b-I b3jAI#t=26) Though of course you use the same idea to express something quite different.
I really enjoy this song. I thought the instrumentation was really well done and nuanced without being too much. Sounds both a tad melancholy and adventurous. I really love the string 'stabs' that sit under the main melody - I think those add a lot.
Hey, thanks a bunch for the review! You are right about that riff being similar to the Pokemon song, but you also hear it in tons of other places. That type of chromatic slide downward is used in a lot of jazz pieces as well.
I'm glad you liked the string stabs! Honestly, those took FOREVER to get done between figuring out the best way to voice the chords among the strings, get good voice leading, and include some extended harmonies. Plus recording myself playing all those parts, quantizing them, and then fixing the rhythmic errors and adjusting velocities. :o
The Door - Surreality 
Steam's Wonderful Contraptions 
Automation 
Sky's the Limit 
Mechanical Anima 
GM - I'm coming 4 u (NGADM13) 
Normal Mapping 
