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"but I find the context of the last part of your review VERY insulting -- if EVERY attempt I am going to make at reproducing something I hear in my mind is more than I can chew, then I'll never get around to finally achieving that sound!"

YES. Never stop saying this. Ignore all the people saying that you're being too ambitious or something equally dumb. There is no such thing as being too ambitious. It's just that everyone else isn't being ambitious enough ;-)

On to the review.

First, a few remarks about EQ and stuff:

A bit of mastering weirdness around 1:30. That drum seems to be messing with the rest of your sound.

There is also some clipping around 2:40.

You may need something on the lower end around the 3:50 mark, to fully flesh out the sound at that point...

Heheh at the blank final minute. You can say that was metaphorical or something :)

Now, about the song itself.

I thought that this song was incredibly ambitious. I dig the concept, the rushing water sample, the really nice synth in the opening, the separate sections of the song that are interrelated. However. I feel like it's unfinished, like it's the first draft of the masterpiece. I think you should take this song, clean it up and fix all the clipping (easier said than done, I know) clean up the vocal parts and the drums. I can hear a really incredible piece in here wanting to get out - especially at the climax around 3:15, I mean wow! But the production is holding it back.

Maybe my review of 6 is too harsh. This is why I hate giving review scores-- it is impossible to condense a song into a number. This is a straight up 10 no questions asked if you fix the problems I mentioned above. So don't really think of it as a 6 :-)

Troisnyx responds:

Apparently, you weren't harsh : I lost with around that score for this song.

Ah yes... THIS chord progression.

Like the guy before me said, this is in DIRE need of some mastering work. Every time a new instrument comes in, I stop being able to hear all of the older ones. This is something you gradually become aware of. Try to make all those voices stand out.

As for the glitching that you did at 2:50 onwards... I usually don't glitch unless it serves some greater goal. For instance sometimes I will glitch a lead melody but keep the beat running normally in the background to suggest that the song is breaking down. Sometimes I will glitch as part of a build, just because it sounds awesome (lol). I like your glitching at the end, but the glitch at 2:50 seems like it was just done for fun rather than any song structure purpose.

But that's just me, so take it with a grain of salt.

Good stuff, keep it up!

Dylnmatrix responds:

The glitching was just me f'ing around and having fun lol, and trying to keep it from sounding repetitive as I had no inspiration for another melody and I had no clue where to go with it, so yeah. And I suck at mastering/EQ'ing normally, I'm still trying to improve. I am very, very much a noob when it comes to that kind of stuff. I just like making melodies and having fun with the song.

Also this song was made over the course of two days with a sleep deprived me, and me experimenting with Gross beat and the time glitching. I may actually do a version of this with no glitching at all, and see if I can figure out how to master correctly.

Thank you for the review though, and the tips on the time glitching.

That chord prog is really weird. I really enjoyed that detuned falling synth during the chorus, that was a cool idea. I bet you could take that idea and twist it a little and make a really crazy lead melody. I meant you're almost doing that already, just push it a little further.

I never noticed this before but you do builds REALLY well. I am like on the edge of my chair every time a build comes in this song. I think that may be why I liked that moombahton song you did, because the builds were awesome (well, and the chorus was awesome too... but the builds!)

Lol you should put the lyrics up if you're not going to upload the vocal version. I confess myself curious of how stupid it could really be. :D

ArcaneSoul responds:

hehe, yeah i tend to go NUTS with buildups.

I need to practice tho making my own though. Like usually about 60% of my builds are from VEC4.

Also, when i mean by vocal version i mean by.....ya know what i'll just send it.

That was pretty cool. You seem like one of those guys who want to make a song out of noise, rather than the other way around. The core section (starting at 1:30) was pretty neat, and the whole thing is produced immaculately. Seriously, I have no idea how you got everything to sound so clean. You must do some dark magic.

Criticism - I felt that it maybe lacked a core motif? I dunno but maybe that was the point? The central point could be a little *more* somehow? ...

I really enjoy the experimental feel of this piece, and I feel like my criticisms are almost pointless in the face of it. Good work.

RichardBatchelor responds:

Thanks dude, it takes a lot of mixing and drafts to get the final result but I get there in the end, I wish I had some form of magic lol.

Fair critique, I try and be as different as I can to set myself apart from other composers and when you are trying to be experimental and work with a lot of ideas and genres that tends to happen.

Always good to have something to work towards. Thanks for listening, plenty more to come :)

listening to the song while writing:

Man one thing your opening got me thinking about was baseline. Like, no one cares if you're doing something fancy down there, although repetition is sometimes nice. THATS WHAT SHE SAID. but what i mean is, just repeating the root note on beat generally works fine, definitely no one's going to call you out for that. but if you write a really nice bass melody it's really easy for it to get buried or just make the song sound screwed up. maybe it's a mastering thing?

anyway i agree that mastering is really difficult, why can't FL just do all the work for me!!! but I think it's very important to be aware that you have problems (and aware of where they are) as a first step. there was a point when i was writing music (and by point i mean '10 years') where i had no idea i had mastering issues at all until someone pointed it out.

i was actually starting to wonder where the problems with mastering even occur, im at 6:00 now and things sound ok. I guess you are referring to the bits around 7:00 where we have these high end pad-sounding things? maybe that's your problem, usually you don't want to have pads fill the high end...

finished, restarting:

i feel like you were maybe a little to harsh on yourself in the comments, the mastering is pretty good, and certainly better than myself (my solution to muddled sounds is to remove instruments until it sounds better :P). i feel like it's important to be able to assess your own stuff well, or you can be like me and think that literally every one of your pieces is your best ever. :D WOW im talking about myself a lot in this review. stoping now. i really enjoy the first time the beat breaks out, it's all very clean.

now my usual criticism, im sure you saw this coming from a mile away, it's just like you telling me i need more diversity of instruments - there's no real lead motif here. no strong melody really jumps out. almost everything just follows the chord progressions you lay down, really. once i get a sense of your chord prog via those vocals at 6:00, i really enjoy it, there's a lot of potential there. i guess the 6:30 synth is a lead, but it's so comparatively quiet for a lead instrument, i dunno, maybe want to raise the volume on him.

hey that instrument in the background at 5:18 sounds really cool.

ok that was a really long review, i think it was just because i decided to listen to the song twice while typing and the song was super long. anyway. keep working on melodies :p cool stuff.

ArcaneSoul responds:

Yeah i kinda do beat myself sometimes. I want to be able to get to this level of trance where the artists just make them like massive soundscapes. But its hard for someone who A: STILL doesn't know what to do when hes eqing, B: REALLY needs to work on sound design.

The melodies were just kinda random btw sadly. I feel like i am really failing at the melodies. Like i remember there was a point during my early days i used to make some weird chord progression and melodies. AND I DIDN'T EVEN HAVE ANY MUSICAL KNOWLEDGE! But now.....it has just been all going downhill.

I really do need help from you sometime because i wanna make amazing melodies! Hell this was going to be my 7th album track but due to the feel i gave it, i didn't (note the 7th track has to have a sad tone).

The guitar was a nice touch. Industrial is a good genre. I used to be a huge Nine Inch Nails guy when I was younger. If I could make a suggestion, it would be to have the guitar be crunchier at times. Like, I can only really hear the midrange I guess? And maybe you should master it to allow the higher ranges to come out at central points? Because right now it sounds almost backgroundy, like it would fit in trance instead of industrial. It's fine, but I feel like with a little more punch it could really burst through.

lol the only reason I know this is because I just started learning about mastering. AND YES IT IS REALLY HARD. I wish I would have started learning earlier...

If I could make another suggestion, maybe it would be to have that guitar riff move around a little. 7 minutes is a long time for an industrial song to stay in once place. I was listening to some other guy's stuff and one way that he made variations even in the same chord progression was by just changing the structure of the beat, if that makes sense. It's a really interesting idea and it makes your song sound a lot more dynamic.

Anyway it's good and I always approve of a foray into new genres and experimentalism. Keep it up.

ArcaneSoul responds:

Well remember the guitar IS a sample as i can't really play it sadly. I just thought it sounded cool and decided to put it in XD

Holy moly, your arps are like candy to my ears. And I really like your bends and slides too - you clearly have mastery over your instruments. The only reason I'm giving this a low review score is because it's clearly incomplete. I'm excited to see a finished piece!

Phendrana Drifts is one of my fave songs from Metroid, so I'm going to be a little harsher on you than normal. sorry :p

First of all, in the intro piano melody, you changed the original melody a tad. I don't like the change as much as I liked the original. It's just a small difference though.

Your solos though... See, Phendrana was originally this soft wintery mysterious song, and I don't think that your solos really adhere to that, they are a lot more energetic. The bit at 2:49 I like, I feel like it's true to the song. But from 3:14-4:20 on I feel like the original song is lost again. It sounds more like an epic battle... If you listen back to the original song again (1:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbbUv1 hz6mE for reference) it has this really nice harp short solo that really stays true to the wintery feel of the whole thing.

So - yes, I'm really nitpicking here - I feel like the song needs a cohesive direction to it, it's trying to do many different things at once.

Anyway, all of that nit picking aside, this is a very good piece. Keep it up!

AgentWhiskers responds:

Thanks for your review!

Yeah I feel you're really nitpicking the structure of the song when my intention wasn't to recreate the atmosphere of the original, but rather take the arrangement and adapt it to my style of work, which is the 'epic battle' you referred to. Nothing you said was wrong and I appreciate your input but why do you feel that I should stick to the original's atmosphere? That's what made the original so damn perfect and it's not something I'd want to attempt to improve upon or compete with. Instead, I chose to take it in a different direction and put my musical mark on it. It's more of a fresh take on the piece rather than being a retread, wouldn't you agree? This structure doesn't play out like a game score but rather a song.

Thanks again for listening and hope you check out my albums!

I love the subtle synths that fill this piece. It's easy to make really loud noises, but it takes skill to make the listener pay attention to something quiet.

I searched for "frost temple" on google and found nothing, heh. it was reminding me of Ice Cavern from Ocarina of Time, but a google proved to me that that song sounds nothing like this one. So who knows that this is a remix of. :P

That aside, I really enjoyed this piece. I feel like you have real talent with dynamics. Everything in this piece sounds great and it all works together very well. I hope to hear lots of good stuff from you in the future. (And feel free to hit me back with a review if you get the chance.)

LuigiofDarkness responds:

If you search Frost Temple on NG Audio, you should find the original.
Thanks for the kind review!

Sounding good so far. The low score is mostly due to the clear WIP nature of the song.

Some notes for improvement: The piano sounds very mechanical - try varying the velocities of the individual notes (harder on beats, softer off beats). The chord prog is a tad cheesy too, maybe you should mix it up sometime. The melody sounds good so far, but you may want to move it to another instrument as to avoid a clash with the other piano you have going.

Good work so far, keep it up!

i always forget to respond to PMs. its not because i hate you, just because i forgot!!!

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